The UGP Podcast
The UGP Podcast
Ep. 56 | Dr. Manny Garcia On Building The UGP Recovery Department & What Happens When You Say Yes to Something Bigger Than Yourself
Manny Garcia, UGP's Director of Recovery, shares his extraordinary journey from owning a successful physical therapy business to building UGP's recovery department, exploring how saying yes to something bigger transformed his life and perspective.
• Leaving behind a thriving business to join UGP in 2018, taking a leap of faith to pursue greater personal growth
• Learning that self-accountability has limits, and how teams expose weaknesses while providing the foundation for unprecedented growth
• Discovering that self-deprecation can be productive but also self-defeating without awareness and moderation
• Building a recovery department by planting seeds in unexpected places and following processes rather than rigid goals
• Finding that behavioral change trumps technology in creating lasting physical transformation
• Recognizing that orthopedic health is the greatest predictor of quality of life in later years, yet most people won't invest five minutes daily in it
• Embracing difficulty, failure and challenging conversations as essential components of growth
• Understanding that true impact comes from unlimited caring and service to others
If you're ready to discover what's possible when you say yes to challenges bigger than yourself, come visit us at UGP or check out our website for more information about our services.
Follow us on Instagram: @urbangolfperformance
Follow Mac: @mactoddlife
Follow Leo: @leo_ugp
Website: urbangolfperformance.com
welcome to the UGP podcast. We're sitting here in Austin Texas with our director of recovery, manny Garcia. Welcome, thanks. This is the first time we're doing anything like this. Um, thinking we'll do more, more of them like this. Uh, we're sitting in a car because the sound is great, and we're sitting down the road from our UGP Austin location in beautiful Austin Texas, and I thought we're going to just have a conversation about UGP and your journey with UGP and growing the recovery department, and so let's start from the beginning 2018. Where do we?
Speaker 2:start. It feels like a lifetime ago, but it also feels it feels like yesterday. It honestly feels like a different life, Just thinking back where, where I was, you know, as a young man thinking I had it all figured out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah and uh, you know, having, you know success on paper and having a business, and you know thinking, uh, I knew I knew what was, uh, what was going to happen in my life. And then I scroll across my Instagram and find UGP and I was living in Costa Mesa at that time, uh, building my business and was just thinking about networking and, um, you know, I think I forgot what happened. I think I think I reached out to you guys. Um, but was that when?
Speaker 1:you were on Instagram.
Speaker 2:Yeah, were you, were you running that account?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I remember it was called full swing pt, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it made it made sense for a golf brand and perspective.
Speaker 1:Like we're gonna get you back to full swing, but so you're just thinking like make connection to try and like share clients and things like that.
Speaker 2:I had my whole life planned out, like really, and then we just messed it all up. I just just screwed it up, yeah, but um, no, it's, it's. It's really wild how fast life can change when you say yes to things. Um, you know, I, I sent a message saying hey, I'd love to stop by and meet you guys. And um, I think he replied right away and you're like can you drive up to LA and can you come meet? And I joke about this all the time. I tell people I drove up to just meet the guys and it was an actual formal interview. And uh, I meet you. And uh, I don't know if I met mac that day, but it was basically a job interview that I did not know about. Okay, and uh, I remember I thought I met you in oc first. No, no, that was maybe after I drove up to la.
Speaker 2:And uh, but the thing that I remember the most and you might not even remember this, um, we were talking about success and you know what you thought success was before joining UGP, because you had your own business before, right, and you you said you know I, I know what you feel like. You know you have success but you don't. I know what you feel like you have success but you can't sleep at night. I think it's exactly what you said. At that point in my life I was struggling with being able to go to um very hard. To grow by yourself. You need to have a backdrop, you need to have a reference point, and it's very hard to know whether you're growing as a person when you're a sole practitioner and because there's nothing really to keep you accountable, to show you your weaknesses. Yeah, and you know that's. I think it's something that you learned about. Ugp, too is is you figured out, like you know. You thought you were at a certain point and UGP exposed really where you were. Yeah, and that really created the fire for you to actually grow as a person.
Speaker 2:And I remember leaving that meeting and just thinking that you had said something that I wasn't even aware of myself and that you really knew something that I wasn't even aware of myself and that you really knew something that I was struggling with before I even knew, and the whole drive to Orange County and I was questioning what that feeling was inside, because I left that interview feeling something I never had an interview like someone understood me and you know, I think we were talking for a little bit. You said, hey, come back to la and come back to q school and another interview, another interview and I I didn't know what q school was and obviously q school has expanded and expanded since then it was. It was basically, you know, it was a combined interview with with four people. Yeah, I said a full day and, um, I think at that point, um, I didn't know that, I was already kind of in the interview process.
Speaker 2:I don't think we had even signed anything at that point. Yeah, yeah, right, it was a wild, wild west, oh man. And then we finished q school. You're like, do you want to do this thing? And it was like a full day, right, yeah, it was a full day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, back to I remember we went to that that uh pokey spot, yeah, and had lunch across the street, right across the pole of the location and, um, I remember leaving, you're like all right, well, you want to do this, and I think it was the craziest thing I'd ever done in my life at that point. And you know, I had on paper, you know, I had my business, I was teaching a doctorate program, I had everything that I wanted. I had my dream car, you know, I had, I had, you know, tons of money and it just everything figured out. And uh, and then this question was like, should I do this or not? So why did you do it? I think it was that question you asked.
Speaker 2:It's like what's the the potential for you when you actually do something that's bigger than yourself, when you say yes to a project that's bigger than what you want in your life? How about something that's going to impact the world? And that was the question that really made me decide, you know, screw it. I understand what Leo is saying. I can only push myself so far when I'm by myself, but how far can I really go with a group of people that will push me and with a company that's of this size and this stature and this quality, right, with the support and the foundations, what? How far can I actually push myself? Yeah, and I had a, I guess a couple moments, where I saw my life on my own and I saw my life with a, with a tribe, and how far we could go together. And that was that moment, just on that car ride back to Orange County, where I decided to leave it all behind and I had you know, I'd started my journey to become a physical therapist and open a golf brand.
Speaker 1:Um, and you had left the clinic that you were at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that had been three, three years ago, three years before, and um clinic that you were at yeah, that had been three, three years ago, okay, three years before. And um, because you were working with co. Yeah, that was like a famous clinic yeah, he was my he was my first uh, my first, uh mentor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, you know we had a great first year and, um, you know, I left for my own reasons. Um, I just wanted to really focus on client care and focus on one-on-one and not insurance based models. And so, yeah, I'd had my business, I was successful and I'd made the decision to leave it all behind for this opportunity. And that's what. That's what the picture was this opportunity to do something bigger. And I remember telling my family right, and it was one of the hardest conversations. I remember they all were just like what are you doing? You're going to go?
Speaker 2:work Because they were excited about you running your own business or, yeah, well, they, yeah, they had heard about it the whole time. Yeah, for almost a decade, since going to undergrad and getting my internships and PT school and, you know, finding success there and then getting into a really good PT school and then getting really good internships, and then landing a great job and then building my business. They were just like. They knew that it was my goal to to start a business and then only have it for three years and then to say, hey, I'm actually going to leave this all behind and go. You know, start at the bottom in this business. And they just didn't understand it. Yeah, they just didn't understand. Well, why would you go? You know you've already done what you've already wanted to. Yeah, and it's growing and you're getting like, why would you basically restart? And they just didn't understand what I felt. I mean, I don't think I understood what I felt. Yeah, at that time.
Speaker 1:I mean it's funny because you know my situation was similar. I had my own company called rotera fitness at the time and, you know, had private clients in orange county, similar to you. And I think what I learned joining, you know, ugp was um the no there's an alarm going here. I never really reached my potential as a professional golfer, as a college golfer, as a junior golfer and looking back I realized, did I really try my best? And if I had to be honest with myself, I don't think I really really tried my best because it was always kind of up to me. You know my parents were supportive but they weren't pushing me really at all. Like I had to rely on my own kind of motivation and commitment and, you know, reach out to colleges in the US myself, to colleges in the US myself. I, you know, did all the work myself and then, you know, got pretty far, but you know, obviously not far enough Got a scholarship, played college golf in the US, came over here.
Speaker 1:But I always was very curious about what my true potential was when I started to think those thoughts, like, okay, so if I didn't try my absolute best, then I never got close to what my true potential is. So what is that? And running my own company and kind of you know doing you know a little bit of uh, work at a, at a gym, in oc, like it was a decent life, made a decent living, but nothing crazy, and thought I had pretty big plans, created a business plan and performa and like, had all these plans to build a business, but that's like really rare to have enough self-accountability to continue and push yourself to your absolute limit. I think because of evolution, human beings are naturally kind of preserving energy. We have a hard time really pushing ourselves, um, and you know we're both ambitious people so we pushed ourselves pretty hard.
Speaker 2:I'm sure, but in which you said that you said the same thing. Actually, you said in that first day we met, I just I feel the same exact way that I did seven years ago.
Speaker 1:And so then UGP when I joined UGP, I got humbled. You know, mac threw me in a bay. I started coaching as well as training and became a hybrid coach and was all very new and the standards were higher and the expectations were higher and I was like holy shit, shit, like I'm getting challenged. And I loved it because I had had a pretty easy time before that, like become a trainer. I was a pretty good golfer, you know. Clients trusted me like I never. And my first mentor, he was great but he wasn't like pushing the envelope.
Speaker 1:So, ugp, when I put the brand on, when I put the shirt on in the morning, I was like, oh, I'm expected to be excellent today. And that became the process. And if that's the process, every day you get a little bit better. Process, every day you get a little bit better. And there was not necessarily a person or someone that was expecting me to be excellent, it was the team and the brand. The team was expecting me to be excellent. And therefore I'm like, wait a minute now, as long as I'm in this environment, I know that I'm going to get closer to my potential and I still don't know what my potential is, but that was the most exciting thing for me. It was like it wasn't necessarily all up to me to put myself, to keep myself accountable for that growth, and that's that was like very challenging but also comforting at the same time.
Speaker 2:You didn't have to do the work to figure out where your weaknesses were, that the team would expose that for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if you don't have people around you, like you know, hard to get feedback, hard to look yourself in the mirror unless you're filming yourself, like what you know how do you really know how you're doing? And that's what the industry standards is is like it's just a bunch of individuals everywhere, regardless if it's fitness, recovery or golf. It's a an industry of individuals out there trying their best, growing their own brands. And then you know, I realized just how much stronger we are as a team. So, yeah, that was probably the conversation we had back then in 2018. So you joined the company and at the time, you know we had dipped our toes into recovery but never really found stability. So you had an incredible challenge in front of you to literally build the recovery department.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think I understood the challenge. Actually, when I said yes to the job and you know I full-heartedly, you know I was like I did this myself. How hard can it be? And I think if I knew how hard the job was actually going to be, I don't think I would have said yes, right, and so that's why I say it's the craziest decision I ever made, but it was ultimately the decision that forced me to evolve as a person in order to do something like this and um, and so I didn't really understand the task when I signed up, but I quickly understood the task as soon as I showed up, and I showed up late on my first day and I remember that story, yeah, yeah, you thought it was in LA, but we were going to meet in OC, so you were early.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in LA, oh, yeah so, but you were late for our seat, for our listeners. Obviously we really care about being in early, um and um. You know, I'm drinking my coffee at 4 30 in the morning. I'm supposed to be there at 5 30, you know, sipping my coffee, taking my time. I'm at the la facility outside the gate and it's 5 25, yeah, there's no one showing up. It's black, yeah. And I look at my phone and it says we'll see you in orange county. And I think I threw that coffee as far as like a football and got to my car and somehow got to from like deep in la down to orange county in about 45 minutes, right at 5 30 in the morning. Yeah, you remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you remember meeting me late on my first day yeah, I, I don't remember actually, but um, I remember that that part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um it's the only time I've been late, yeah, only time, only time.
Speaker 1:Um. So, seven years later, like reflecting over it, because you said, like if you knew exactly how it was, because we were like I said we were building at the time, like we didn't have a recovery department, we didn't have multiple, you know clinicians working together treating people. So, seven years later, like why do you think you're happy that you actually said yes? Like what? What has changed in your life through those seven years, in this environment of like excellence because it's not an easy environment but obviously for people that likes to grow and thrive, like it's pretty amazing what it can do, not because of any specific person, but purely because of the culture that we've created you know, um, I think I think people are capable of change and I think it takes something very stressful or life-changing in order for people to change.
Speaker 2:And I think that task was so monumental, was so hard for me at that point in my life. It really exposed my weaknesses in a way that I've never seen before. It really forced me to look at myself for the first time really in my life. It was such a big wall to go up against that I had to admit really where I was. I couldn't fake it and I had to be honest with myself around, who I was and what I brought to the table and really, um, I guess, let let parts of myself that like weren't serving me that way anymore like let go, had to let go of those pieces. And it allowed me actually to become a closer, closer to the version of the person I wanted to be.
Speaker 2:And and that happens every single day I put the uniform on and I call it my cape, right when, when I'm training recovery guys, it's my cape, it's it's my permission to, to reach for that person I want to be in my life and I don't think that I would have that, um, I guess, relationship with, with my profession and my job and my career had it been outside of ugp? I don't think so, and so why I'm thankful I made that decision? Because it's truly changed the way I look at myself. It's changed the way I look at the world and it's gotten me closer to that type of person I want to be every single day.
Speaker 1:What was that main pain point? What was the main room for improvement?
Speaker 2:The main thing for me. You know that I had to overcome. I'm a pretty like self-deprecating person. You know I had that's just a product of my childhood. I think that's why I'm such an overachiever, right? Or I guess I try so hard. Yeah, is I? Just? Nothing's ever good enough. Yeah, that's a strategy, you know, a way to go through life with, yeah, and it can move you in the right direction and move you forwards. But it's also a double-edged sword. Yeah, right, it could be very, very hard to have that mentality if it's to the extremes, and I think at that point in my life I hadn't really learned to to, I guess, soften that part of myself. And that, that part of myself that was beating me down, was a huge part of why I struggled so hard in the first year. Too hard on yourself, too hard on myself like, too self-deprecating, and it got me down to this pit where I realized, like you know, this job is already hard enough.
Speaker 2:You have to be kind to yourself and I think this was the first time really in my life that I'd ever been kind to myself. And that was so hard because I didn't grow up, it wasn't allowed, basically, in your world. Yeah, it wasn't, you know. You know when my family history, you know our family, our parents, both worked two jobs. They weren't home, you know they. They didn't give us the skills to be able to, you know, cope and work through your emotional parts of yourself on your own and have that. So that wasn't a skill, it was that you have worked it, you better get it done, and that's just.
Speaker 2:You know, part of you know, uh, growing up on a ranch and, you know, being a first generation Mexican American, that's just. That's just. The mentality is you, you have a job and you go do it and there is no complaining, right, yeah and um, that was a that got me to that point in my life. It's got me through, you know, my doctorate program. I'm the first person in my family history to to get a higher level degree and um, and it got me this far. But at UGP, that mentality actually brought me to my knees, right and it it actually was the reason why, you know, I suffered and it was the reason, you know, um, why I basically had to give up. I had to, I had to release that part of myself, or those thoughts, and just say, hey, this isn't really working for me anymore. It's something that is actually holding me back from achieving this goal, right and so I when did you realize that self-deprecation was a tool for you?
Speaker 1:Because maybe you weren't aware of that the whole time.
Speaker 2:I remember my first six months. I remember going to lunch with you I think it was somebody else and you said, manny, you're really self-deprecating. And I was kind of caught off guard by that comment because I never had thought myself as self-deprecating and that was kind of like a mirror that you kind of showed myself. And that was like the first time I'd actually been aware of, like, how negative I was, negative against yourself, up against everything Right, not things going wrong, like the bay is being dirty, the bathroom's not being clean. It was just nothing was ever good enough. Yeah, right, and it's the way, the filter that I saw the world through, and it's most definitely the way I saw myself. Right, and you know, that is a strategy to move forward in life, but it can also have really harsh consequences and I think, think, um. So that was the first time really that I got exposed to that reality and, um, it just became the thing that I actually accepted as truth when I hit my rock bottom, when things weren't going well, right, and when, you know, I almost wanted to give up and instead of giving up on the task, you know, I gave up finally on this, this part of myself that had gotten me to this point right, and that part of me, you know, now it's still there, but it's just, you know, a little weaker part of myself and a little bit more positive, and I think that's that's what's needed.
Speaker 2:Uh, when you're doing hard things right is, um, the ability to, you know, be kind to yourself, right, especially when things are hard right, and to support yourself, which I feel like a lot of people, um, you know, might need some help with nowadays, but that's what the team is there for and that's what the team did for me. And I remember, you know, at the deepest part of the first year, right, um, where we had still not figured it out, it was kind of at the precipice of of um, of um, I guess, the, the challenges that we had on the recovery side, I felt like giving up. I just I felt like giving up. Remember, we were thinking about, you know, selling vitamins and, yeah, yeah, building a business through that, and it just wasn't even close, yeah and um, and that was this place where just really had just given up because self-deprecation can be such a good driver you can for for, like, high performance.
Speaker 1:But after you got self-awareness around, like okay, maybe I'm a little bit too hard on myself and it can be helpful, but do you feel like you started to use it then after that more as a tool where you could like turn up the volume, turn down the volume on that a little?
Speaker 2:bit. I think I still use it as a tool. It's just at a lower volume, yeah, it's a lower volume, and so sometimes I need to turn that volume all the way off and turn up the positive vibes, really, which is hard for me to affirm myself and to tell myself I'm doing a good job and I'm doing enough. Yeah, right, and so that noise, right, is less loud, yeah, right, and it keeps me moving in the right direction, but it's, it's a pleasant volume, it's not, you know, nerve-wracking yeah, I mean, it's a it's.
Speaker 1:you know, if I really want to piss you off, I'll tell you you're doing a good job it doesn't work it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work, it does. It does actually. I just don't think it works. I just don't want to admit it.
Speaker 1:But let's talk about the recovery department as a whole, because it was basically, you know, non-existent when you started and so building that was painful because nobody had really done it the way we did it in the golf industry. Right, like, um, and just so that, like the facts. Now, you know, 12 years in building this business, you know we are, even though we're a small team, um, we are the biggest team in golf performance when it comes to, you know, golf fitness trainers and recovery specialists working together, um, and that says a lot about the industry, maybe more than about us, because it's such a hard business and not a lot of people are doing it um, um, but the fact that you were able to lead that was pretty, you know, pretty special, because it was painful in the beginning, was a lot of trial and error. What was some of the learning lessons that you learned?
Speaker 1:Like early on, trying to build a team around you, cause you were already really high level when we hired you. You had been a dpt for many years and had a good experience. Obviously, like all of us had a lot to improve on when it comes to the service level that we expect the udp. But what was some of the biggest things? Building the recovery department?
Speaker 2:yeah, and so I think the biggest thing that that stands out is that you don't know where good things are going to emerge from and you know when.
Speaker 2:When we were trying to make this thing work right, something that we had been doing, um, was what I had been doing was going into golf assessments.
Speaker 2:You know I had no clients on my book, right, and I obviously try to be a value, and you know I developed a really close relationship with with Nate Wilson at that time, right, and and I didn't have anything to do, so I would spend my time going into golf assessments and I would try to be of service in there and instead of doing our top tier screen, I would offer my help and say, hey, is it okay if I take this person through a movement screen but actually take them into the recovery room and actually check all their passive ranges and give you kind of an idea of the things that we're going to see on the golf swing?
Speaker 2:And you know we did that and I would go back in there and maybe watch a couple of swings and give Nate my thoughts around. You know their loading pattern and their sequence, and I had been doing that for nine months and I was still thinking about how vitamins were going to create a business model, right, or what we were going to do to actually create a business. But we had been doing that for a long time and it got to the point where we had invested so much time with nate. You know, I remember one day, right, um, he basically was like hey, I don't need you to to go into the assessments with me anymore, I don't need you to do these top tier screens, and you know it's like okay, well, why is that?
Speaker 2:Well, you've taught me enough, right, and I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't need you to come in there, right, but what we're going to do instead, right, is you know, after we get these people to come in and obviously want to coach with us, right, I know enough on how to get them to buy into working on their body that I'm just going to get them to see you.
Speaker 2:And that was the moment, that was the eureka moment, where we both realized that we had created a step in the business and that work had been going on for months, right, and so that was that's probably the strongest thing is that you know, you have this idea of how it's going to work out, um, when in reality, it could come from completely nowhere. So I guess the thing that I've learned is just to plant seeds and you don't know what's going to grow. You say yes to every opportunity you serve in whatever way you can, right, and you be of service um in in whatever way you can, right, and you be of service um in in whatever way possible, and you just don't know what's going to emerge yeah, yeah, it's more following a process rather than, you know, having goals.
Speaker 1:yeah, and because the thing is, when you grow, you don't know what the end goal will look like. And when you follow a process instead of like a specific end goal, even more things can happen than that end goal that you had in mind first time. And I think that's a pretty, that's like a cornerstone of the UGP culture is, you know, yeah, we can set goals, but really what the research shows is if we um, so you know, have process, a process, process, goal mindset and even maybe better, identity goals, like I'm going to become a person that does X, y, z, we actually go way beyond what we previously thought was possible. And it's that idea of like, oh, want to lose 30 pounds, um, and then when you've lost 30 pounds, then what? And we do that with other things. Like, okay, I want to make this much money and you get there, and then what you know, like you realize, like, oh, life doesn't actually change it's a sad deal.
Speaker 2:The story goes on right, the journey just keeps on going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the same thing, Like you have to start to actually just be content with yourself and your reality, because those variables are external variables that don't really matter in the big scheme of things. What matters is, like, your values and what's happening inside of you, like are you happy? Are you doing something that you love doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I use.
Speaker 2:I think being impactful is just trying to be of service and be as impactful as you can with the time that you have was something I didn't know, was, I guess, something I was trying to do right, just something I felt right doing, and I think that's what drove a lot of the behaviors right that created the business.
Speaker 2:It was just how can I be as impactful as possible. It was more of a of a of a direction, not necessarily a specific place to go or a specific place to land right, it's just more of a direction and where to head. And it's it's something that I talk a lot about with with, you know, the new recovery guys, when we bring them on board is, you know, not getting so focused on the details of the job, of being focused on the values that are going to create success right as grit right and being impactful, being honest and being being authentic in the way of doing it. But I think being impactful right is a great value system to kind of, you know, take and move through life, giving impact other people. I mean, that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1:So then now obviously we hire, you know, pts, kairos, athletic trainers. You're in charge of the whole department, you're part of the interview process, you're training them hands on. You know what would you tell someone that, like applies to UGP, thinking about, you know, joining the team, you know, going back to what you said, like I probably would have said no, yeah, what? What would you, what would be your advice? Cause you're at this point, you know, in my biased opinion, one of the best golf specific, uh, physical therapists in the world. I mean, you've worked with all our tour players. You've not only, you know, shown that the top level um session quality, you know, but actually growing a team, that's like different skills, that's required leadership. So you got a lot of experience very specific to our industry. So your your recommendations, your advice to someone that's maybe looking to get into golf but don't know what to do, like what would be your advice to all those individuals?
Speaker 2:is find a place. It doesn't need to be about golf, right, um. Find a place that can allow you to show how much you care it really is. And because there's a lot of shackles and restraints and businesses out there, Right and, and you can want to care, Um, but sometimes you know, certain businesses won't allow you to do that, whether it's through their management or through their structure or through the size of their business or or whatnot.
Speaker 2:But finding a place that will allow you to really care as much as you want and to care as deeply as you want that, I think is is what's been. So I guess life-changing about UGP is is there is no limit to how much we can care and what we can do to impact our clients. And I don't think a place like that exists really in my profession I really don't, with the shackles of insurance and just the structure of it all. So I'm super fortunate to have found such a place and obviously I want to create the best job in rehab and that's why that's what wakes me up in the morning. But to everybody else, right and out, there is find a place where you can dump all your care and passion, and, obviously, people who are applying to the role here at UGP is more of a question is how badly do?
Speaker 1:you actually care.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, not care about yourself and what you want to do, but about actually serving other people, because you can't fake it. Yeah, you can't fake how much you care. You can, you know, put on a show for a little bit, but eventually, you know, people fall back to a level of complacency when the spotlight is off. And you can't fake it and we know whether it's real or not. So it's more of a question of someone who's applying to UGPs how much do you really care?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that comes up a lot in our training, comes up a lot in our interview processes. We have to evaluate the selflessness and the true willingness to serve others and what we've found is that you can't artificially create that, because when you have it it's something that you can't artificially create. That, because when you have it it's something that you can't really control, it's just an innate drive where you know, and it can become like a little bit problematic, yeah, detrimental for sure. You know, I know you have a very, very high drive where, like, if you are in an environment to serve someone, you will go until you fall to the ground yeah, I won't eat, which is a problem. Yeah, and that's like my dad is the same. You know, my dad was a chef and he ran a restaurant when I grew up, and so he's, I has that service mind and he will make the food serve everyone else, won't eat himself and then he'll do the dishes after and he's like, and it's detrimental to him, but it's because you can't really like, tone it down when you, when you have it and and then obviously hopefully you learn how to, you know, gauge it and taper it realize like, hey, you can.
Speaker 1:At times you have to control it. Yeah, um, but yeah, it is really a UGP. It's all about finding those individuals that are that thrives in serving others, because it's not fun if you have a group of individuals that, like they say that they care about helping others. But a lot of people can say that and a lot of people that don't have that drive that we're talking about, that says that's not. And you know, at least in our culture, we can't have people that, um, just say it. They actually have to do it and show it through their actions, cause otherwise it's not fun for them either.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, it's. No one went to that situation. I think we're getting better and better at at finding and feeling that out in people, whether they really really care or not, or whether they're just telling themselves that or us, and so I think we've gotten much better, and I think the bigger, better we get at that, more people that truly care.
Speaker 1:They're just going to gravitate towards what we're doing and they'll find us yeah, and it's the same in it, like whether it's a coach or a trainer or a recovery specialist, anybody in our business at least because and it sounds like trivial like do you care and you like to help others? Like, yeah, it sounds like trivial like do you care and do you like to help others.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, it sounds simple when we talk about it, but it's actually like maybe the most important thing, because if you have that, everything else solves itself. Right, because if you care that much, you're going to study.
Speaker 2:It's an ocean of, it's really truly an ocean, yeah.
Speaker 1:You're going to seek feedback. You're going to seek information. You want to continue to educate yourself. You want to also help your teammates, which is, like, the most important thing in our culture is is is caring more about your teammates um than than yourself, and because we want to create that, uh, culture of humility and gratitude and selflessness, and but. But if you could find one trait you know you combine grit with an unlimited, you know willingness to serve others, then UGP is in, you know a great place. But you have to ask yourself that difficult question, like, are you?
Speaker 2:truly that person and I I thought I cared right before I came to UGP and um, clearly, I started a business to help other people, but I think the brand it, it it really created such a stronger understanding of what that word actually meant, not just, not just in my profession, what I do rehab but in the way I spoke to people, the way I remember things about their life, the way I shake their hand and remember facts about their kids and their dog's name, and those things and I so I think it, I have such a such deeper understanding of what that word actually means and obviously you care for people in that way. You learn to hopefully care for yourself, which is, which is something that is very new for me in my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we could sit here and talk about you know technical stuff and what you know amateur golfers should do to improve their health and you know their training and you know and we might get into that. But you know it is really maybe something that isn't talked about enough because a lot of the conversations we hear from outside of UGP is like what technology are you using? You know what are you looking at, you know expanding, basically to make more money, like these the motivations are not always based in how you can help people and we have taken a different approach, like we barely use any technology. Um, we use some technology on the golf side, a little bit technology on the fitness side, the recovery side, like barely any.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just movement screen and tables yeah and you have a lot of people in our industry like asking us because they see, like, what we do and they're like so have you? You know, have you seen this fifty thousand dollar cable? And we're like, yeah, the company has tried to like give us one for free, and we said no. Basically I'm exaggerating a little bit, but we get sold on these things all the time and and and to us, it's like are missing the point in what actually like create success in our industry. Industry, it's actually the human interaction, it's caring about the person that's standing in front of you, because that person is really not going to care about a fifty thousand dollar cable machine. It's cool like, oh shit, like it has a pressure plate. Wow, this is really cool.
Speaker 2:But that's not gonna make them come back in no, and you know, if a fifty thousand dollar cable machine is like great, like are they, what are they going to come in every day to to work on it, to get better? Yeah, right, um, we need to change people's habits, right, uh, when they're not in front of us. But if we truly want to be impactful in their life. And so you know, you know, we, we talk a lot about it, a lot at UGP is is especially on the recovery side, right Is, what's the point of technology and sophistication If you can't even get a person to spend two minutes a day thinking about the?
Speaker 1:physical health? It doesn't matter Right.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter Right. And so, once a week on a $50,000 machine, what is that really going to do? Is that? How is that going to impact this person's thought process? How is it going to impact their life If this person, you know, can't touch their toes right?
Speaker 1:What's more impactful, yeah. And then you ask them are you willing to spend 10 minutes on this? And they go I'll try.
Speaker 1:yeah, a fifty thousand dollar cable machine is not going to help anything absolutely and so it has everything to do with behavioral change science, you know, finding their intrinsic motivation, servicing them, yeah, um, at a five-star level to create some buy-in and then work on the fundamentals, because the best program in the world is the one that you're going to do, is the program that they'll keep doing right, and I think sometimes in the industry we miss that um, and we try to hide behind.
Speaker 2:You know, the real problem is, you know, not creating change by sophistication and technology and um and all that. And when you look at people's habits, you know everybody brushes their teeth, you know what. Two minutes a day in the morning, two minutes, right. But why don't people have that same thought process when it comes to their physical health, correct, right, their lymphatic system, their feet right, their, their t-spine, their pelvis position, and so that's what it is for us, really, I'm sure it is on the coaching side, right With, with, with technique and doing your, your reps and getting your practice in, and same thing with fitness. It's small little things.
Speaker 2:We're just trying to do with these people's lives is change tiny little habits that are going to be impactful over, you know, a 30, 40 year period, right, and so that's a tenant of ours is, you know, if you can get a person to do a pelvis movement right At least once a day for the next 30 years, what is that going to do for their health? Yeah, right, that one little sliver of of, of education and impact and accountability, what could that? What could that do for them? Yeah, right, if they do an open book stretch every single day. What does that mean for their shoulders and their neck and their lungs? Yeah Right, how many more years of you know good golf and you know pain, painless shoulder and neck pain are these people going to have? We can just be that impactful and keep it that simple.
Speaker 1:It's crazy to think about that. It's very clear Orthopedic health is the biggest limiting factor when it comes to quality of life in the later years. Yeah, and you know we've done a pretty good job. You know, putting the like importance on, like brushing your teeth, like most people do that twice a day because they realize like if I don't do this, like bad shit will happen. But like our joints is, you know so unbelievably important. And you know so unbelievably important. And you know, we know, like if you break your hip, you know after 80, like you'll die within a year. You're better off getting cancer at 80 than breaking your hip. All these different things is because orthopedic health, muscle and skeleton health is the biggest variable for longevity. But we will not invest five minutes a day, um, on joint health and if we could do anything for our life in general, it would be that and I think you know I'm a physical therapist, so what I do deal with is pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, that's that's my life's mission is obviously to understand it. And, um, what I've come to learn is, you know, um, people only listen to to pain when it gets loud enough. Yeah, right, and if your joints don't hurt in your 30s, 40s, 50s, right, there is no cue to get you to actually pay attention. Yeah, and you know, and that's what the message gets louder and louder and eventually it gets loud enough. Right, it's almost too late.
Speaker 2:So how do we teach people right to, I guess, throughout their day, pause and listen, and that's a quest that's really, really hard to get people to think about these things, because there's so many other things that are more important.
Speaker 2:Right, if your shoulders aren't hurting but you're struggling to pay your bills, right, why would you spend five minutes, right, working on your shoulder health?
Speaker 2:Right, and you got other things, so we get it right. But it is one of those things that really matters, like investing in the stock market, right, we all know investing every day for 50 years. It's going to be the same and you know, we want people to do the same thing with their physical wealth, but I don't think that you is there, and so you know we need to do a better job getting people to think about these things proactively and invest, you know, every single day, little tiny ways, and I think that's a big way that we can impact the world and people's ability to play golf at a high level for a really long time, increase their health span, really is to get them to think about these things, and I don't know if I told you, but my first, you know, when I had my business, something I also did at the exact same time was I did a lot of home health. That's right, yeah, and you know, at the time I really hated it. You went to people's homes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know Student loans, right, I've got to make more money, and so a lot of people will do home health. And for people that don't know what home health is, it's a very small sector of rehab where you go to people's homes who are so incredibly sick or unable to move that they can't go to the hospital or to the clinic, so you go visit them at the house, and so I had the privilege of working with a very specific population of people that were so unhealthy, right, that it had stolen their ability to, you know, play golf, to walk to their mailbox, to get you know their mail, to even, you know, travel and see their families. It became burdens to their loved ones, and so, at the same time I was working in sports orthopedics and working with athletes I was also working with the opposite end of life, and the main question I just asked myself is how do people let themselves get here?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, and some of them were unlucky with genetic disorders and things that just they couldn't handle. But a lot of these things were caused by life decisions, right, smoking, alcoholism, right, poor nutrition, not enough exercise. And you know, I saw these people filled with regret, right, I was just like man. I just I could have done a little bit more. And it's interesting because it's really affected the way I see people now and I think about people when they're 80, and most people come and want to play good golf, and what we really want is people to play golf when they have grandkids, because this game just brings us so much joy and that's that's.
Speaker 2:I think a different level of care is caring for someone 40 years in the future Totally Right, and it's. It's a painful thing because most people don't think that far up and help right, they don't prioritize that. But I think that's a place where we can be of great service to the people. Right, it's not just focused on when they have injuries, to really talk about their future and paint a brighter picture for their future If we just motivate them to just think about these things, the way they think about brushing their teeth.
Speaker 1:It's crazy to think about. I mean, I'm going down the rabbit hole here with the, the analogy of brushing your teeth, but like dental health, you can kind of like figure it out. You can pull a tooth out, you can replace it, you can get veneers yeah, they fall out totally fine. If you have a shitty T-spine at 67, you can't reverse that. Yeah, you can't do a surgery to fix that. And people invest 401k. They basically set their whole life up to have like an amazing situation when they retire.
Speaker 2:Super mobile and be able to, you know, and then they can't move when they retire. You heard that saying. Right, it's like young men will spend their youth chasing wealth and, in their later years, spend their wealth chasing youth. That's right. And try to get back time. Try to get back time, to get back time where they were before.
Speaker 2:And you know, your health is. Your health is the foundation of all things you want to do in life. It really is is, you know, you'd have grand plans to build businesses or get married, but let's say you have something happen to you an accident, you break your spine, or you you get cancer. All your plans stop, yeah, and so it's something we don't think about because, for the most part, most of us are healthy most of our lives. But it is the bedrock of everything you want to do, and it's just unfortunate that it takes people hitting, you know, these low points, these rock bottoms where they finally start to make their conscious choices. Yeah, and so how do we, you know, how do we talk to people? How do we motivate them to make these decisions before it is too late? And it's a challenge, but I think that's the edge where we can really be impactful.
Speaker 1:What is something that you've changed your mind on in the last two years In regards to, like the technical rehab? Yeah, what we do on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:Man rehab, yeah, what we do on a daily basis, man, um, you know the I think maybe I'm repeating ourselves but you don't. If you're not affecting, uh, people's habits, you're really not, um, doing much for them. You can give them the perfect exercise and, you know, get them to the point where they're not in pain, right, but as soon as they're out of pain and they leave, they don't have a habit, right, then they're probably going to be back at some don't have a habit, right, then they're probably going to be back at some therapy place or you're back at your place working on the same problem. And so I think I've forfeited a lot of the complexity around, um, how to help people, yeah, and really focus a lot on their understanding of how simple this stuff is. Right, it's just, it's just small little things done every day, um, I think, um, so I have let go a lot of complexity, um, in order to be successful, and I've still got a long way to go as far as you know, being impactful with people and getting them out of pain.
Speaker 1:It's complex, um, so hopefully that yeah, realizing that the habit is a bigger piece of the pie then it's 90 of it.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, it's like what ryan chobb, our our uh udp tour um kind of director who leads the the uh, the players out there on tour, um, he always tells our tour players like you know, we only swing about, you know 40, 50 times, you know, in around a golf but we will take, you know, 10, 000 steps. So you know if you're a gator shit, you know if you're walking inconsistently, that's going to have a much bigger impact on your body than the 40, 50 swings. So and that goes up the chain right, because you know something is dysfunction, functional in the foot. That's why we focus so much on the feet, because we take so many more steps than swings. You know it adds up. Same what you're talking about habits, you know sleep, nutrition, hydration, um. You know movement habits, um, all those things adds up to a much bigger piece of the pie than we perceive.
Speaker 2:And speaking about you know team, you know there are a lot of people that know Ryan. They've had the privilege of working with him and he's in such a cool spot now where not many people are ever going to be able to work with Ryan right, unless you're a tour player and talk um, talk about a person that has, uh, affected my life and the way I I see my job and the way I do my job. So I just wanted to shout Ryan out for being a huge impact, uh, to how I actually treat now and how I solve problems, um, and so I know many people won't ever have the privilege of working with him, but if you ever get the chance to see him, man, he's a great guy.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know we talked about caring about others. You know, ryan is one of the biggest empaths I've ever met. You know, and same thing there.
Speaker 1:It's almost to the point where you know he cares so much about other people and he wants to help everyone and that's a part of why he's, you know, become one of the best in the world it's like sneakily, like quietly, doesn't make noise he's an absolute killer and he's a great example, you know, in terms of like you don't have to be loud to be great, and a lot of times he's a great example in terms of like you don't have to be loud to be great, and a lot of times he's like the opposite of me yeah, I, I guess in some ways, but you have a lot of common denominators as well, and I think um you know, yeah, pound for pound.
Speaker 2:I don't think I've ever met someone who's more impactful um with a, like a word, quota yeah, his, his words weigh a lot, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Silence, calmness, composure, um creates more credibility, um adds a lot more weight to every word you say. It's impactful and um. But I think the base, the base of of ryan's whole being, is that deep, deep care of others, um so I have a question for you.
Speaker 2:Obviously, we uh, you know ugp tours expanding in a massive way and it was just something that, um, I think we decided to try out, right, and then all of a sudden, we're we're at this point where we, uh, we don't have enough people out there. Yeah, we need more people. What's, uh, what's your um, I guess vision of what that's going to look like over the next 5, 10, 15 years?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and I play. I plan to have a uh one of these uh podcasts with with ryan soon, probably when we're in augusta, um, so we'll go deeper. But yeah, I mean, we didn't have plans to be on tour. We now have eight players on the pgo tour that we help out there and it was basically because we were helping colin since he was at cal 2018. We started working with him and eventually, you know, he had a obviously crazy success and he was like I need you on tour.
Speaker 2:So me and ryan start traveling helping colin on tour and then, you know, it just grew from there, um, organically, kind of like how UGP has grown, just like word of mouth um, you said yes to an opportunity in this massive thing emerged, and I think that's what I was speaking about when saying yes to the opportunity about UGP and yes to these opportunities that created the department as you get. I think that's, I guess, why I love this brand so much is. Is we run through walls first, right yeah, and then we figure it out later?
Speaker 1:it was a big, big question mark whether we were even going to do it, because so many reasons why we couldn't even imagine having ryan chobb leave santa monica, the of UGP, with all the tour players and all the LPGA tour players.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in the beginning it was like we just can't see it, it would be too distracting and all these things. And then you know, sometimes you just have to go for it and obviously when you have someone like Colin asking you to come out and help, and you know, of course you do it and it worked out. But it doesn't work out unless you have that deep care for trying to like deliver a service out for the best place in the world. That's better, that's deeper and different from what's out there. I think we've tried to like take what we can deliver in our UGP locations the level of service, level of hospitality and the deep care for every person that walks through the doors. We tried to bring that out on tour.
Speaker 1:It's it's really hard because we don't have the four walls. You know, we, we, we are not in control as much as we are in our locations, but, um, it's been fun building and um and uh, it's grown much faster than we expected. And so, yeah, I mean we, you know, you know we need more recovery specialists and uh, you know it's crazy to see. You know how. You know you can join ugp and you know, if you do a good job, maybe a couple years down the road. You can work with the best players in the world, because this is not slowing down.
Speaker 2:We can tell the traction is so strong that this is just going to keep growing and that's the thing that I love about our story is just that you know, we say we, when we say things, they actually happen right. And we said we, we were going to open this many locations, that happened. And we said we were going to build a ladder to the pga tour, and it happened right. And we're going to do all these things.
Speaker 1:And every time we say we're going to do something right, we actually pull it off yeah, it might not be as fast as we first think, but I think in some other areas we like over, uh, exceed the expectations that we set. So maybe it evens out. But uh, you know, because when you're in it it always feels like fuck, we're not moving fast enough. We're not growing fast enough and from the outside, though.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, we can see a tree growing and it.
Speaker 1:You know it can only grow so fast, but it's yeah it's definitely happening and you know when you talk to private equity people they're like growing way too slow, yeah, yeah, so. And then you know some people like I can't believe how fast you're growing. So it just depends on perspective.
Speaker 2:But I think well, what's that saying? Right About trees? Right, Like bamboo, like takes 10 years to grow roots before it sprouts up to the sky and then it grows a foot a day or something. It's the tallest plant in the world, yeah Right, and so you know, we're laying foundations and it takes time.
Speaker 1:It takes time to do it right, yeah, takes time, you know it takes time to do it right, yeah, and I think just we go back to the basics, um, because a lot of times it's easy to skip the basics. You know the best players in the world, in any sport, they're usually extremely, um, what we call savagely good at the fundamentals. Because if you keep working on the fundamentals like you see scott shuffler, he keeps working on his grip, he has a grip trainer. He looks at his grip every time on the range before him, almost every shot. So, like, if scott shuffler has to make sure his grip is right, that says something you know. It says that you know, um, we have to continue to not think that we're above the fundamentals and the basics and anything we do, because that's actually what drives results and performance I was just saying, bruce lee.
Speaker 2:It's like I fear not the man who's practiced 10 000 kicks once, I fear the man who's practiced one kick 10 000 times and like that is a true testament to like what ugp is right there. It's the way you, you know you shake a person's hand, you clean a bathroom, you fold a towel, you do an assessment by the way you call a person. It's, it's seeking that perfection and I think that's in our DNA and I think it's. It's a hard, it's a hard principle to follow. People want to get, get to the to the finish line faster. If you really want to try to master, it is something that you have to accept as a way of life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Something that we deal with a lot. Right Like people want to grow fast, People want to like get promotions. You know the patients. Maybe it's not always the best, Um, so that's an important piece of advice right To everyone out there. Like, if, um, you have PTs, Kairos, clerk trainers, listening, you know how many years do you need to be patient to get good?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, Grittiness for sure is a super weapon, and patience we talk about all the time. You know you have patience. 99% of your competition is going to quit. Right, and it is a superpower right. Even though it might feel like you're not getting there and you're doing slower than you think, all you got to do is just not quit and just keep one foot in front of the other and you'll get there one day and you can't really train grit.
Speaker 2:I think you can I think through like graded exposure. But you know, I think grit comes from, comes from. I think you can I think through like graded exposure, but, um, you know, I I think, um, grit comes from, comes from your past. It comes from your past experiences and, um, I think certain people, you have a certain level of grit that's just like in your blood and your DNA, right, um, but I think you can change it if you fully like, say yes to what's in front of you and the challenges that you that are in front of you. I really think you can change it. If you fully say yes to what's in front of you and the challenges that are in front of you, I really think you can work on grit.
Speaker 1:Because we know through science that grit is the most important variable in any endeavor. It's what basically beats out any experience, academic level. Even hard work is not the same as grit. That's a very important point. Like you can work really hard for two years and then you hit some adversity and you quit because you weren't gritty. Grit is more about how you respond to failure and how you respond to mistakes and obstacles. It's something we talk a lot about in our training. You always fail when you're doing something challenging worth doing to grow. It's just like you know, training to get stronger. We know for a fact that if we put mechanical stress on muscle fibers, if you eat, sleep and hydrate, they will go back faster and stronger after that stress and the brain kind of works the same way. Like if you challenge yourself you'll get better. But it's uncomfortable and if you're pushing yourself a lot you will make mistakes. You know you actually. Failure is actually part of the process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we have that famous picture in our bays right mount, stupid, right, it's really just, um, you know, visual representation of flow and I think you know too many people quit at the trough right and they have this long climb up to that aha eureka moment and that I think I wish that people just understood that and you just gotta, just gotta, stick with it. Yeah, just long enough to where you, where you can get that, that peak over the cliff, right, it'll all be worth it, and the only thing you've got to do to get to that point, you just can't quit, you know, you just gotta show up and that's hard it's hard for a lot of reasons, and I'd love to hear your reasons why.
Speaker 1:I mean the graph that you're talking about. Sometimes people call it the Dunning-Kruger effect, which is basically saying, like it's a it's a nerdy way of saying someone is stupid or dumb or dumb, but essentially it's like someone gains knowledge in a subject and they, their confidence goes up and they, they hit this peak place where they're still very early on but they, in their mind, from their point of view, they feel like they know a lot about the topic and it creates this basically naive overconfidence, um, that they are incredible, um, and then they get humbled and then they, kind of like, fall to the bottom and that's where what you mentioned like that's where your grit is is basically tested. Um, so what, uh, what happens when you, when you hit that?
Speaker 2:yeah, when, when I hit it because I'm stupid, is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1:um, I guess quit well, I, I think that's an important point. Yeah, in someone's growth is like you basically have to tackle those demons. Yeah, because I think we all do it to some degree. But hopefully, when we get self-awareness through that journey, we learn how to like, we learn how to identify that we're on mountain stupid, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I think obviously funny how it just comes full circle. I think that's that's what ugp has really changed in my life. Right, it's. You know, every year we have new hurdles and we're trying to do bigger things every year. And I know now, right, every new thing that we do, every new challenge we try to overcome, that monster is going to get louder.
Speaker 2:Like that guy you're battling on level one of the video game is the same guy you're going to be battling right on level 10. Right, and it's the demons in your head. And I think that going through struggle and going through hard things in a place like this has, I guess, given me awareness of my demons. And I think that's the beauty of like taking on hard things in life and this goes outside of UGB too is you just choose to do hard things. You, you get to, um, go face to face with those stories in your head and that demon in your head. And if you just keep going and you don't quit, right, and you, you pick yourself back up and you just keep going, eventually you'll you'll beat that level. And it's the same guy at the next level, it's just a little bit harder and you're going to get a little bit better, and that's why people play video games.
Speaker 2:It's that addiction of challenge and overcoming that obstacle and then the constant pursuit of achieving more difficult things. And I think that's the beauty of leveling up and I think that's what UGP has allowed me to do is just to be nicer for myself when I'm facing hard things and to expect that it's going to suck. I expect that it's going to suck and just be okay with it as being part of the process. I think I wish more people knew that it's it's you're doing hard things, it's supposed to be hard yeah, you know it's.
Speaker 1:there's some interesting research on on happiness correlated with trying difficult things, right? So, um, you're basically more fulfilled in life if you try difficult things. Um, because when you overcome them, you feel like, oh, I'm making a difference. I'm actually like I have a purpose. Because if, if you're not trying difficult things in life, because if you're not trying difficult things in life, what's your life purpose? Because it feels like you're kind of just treading water and you're not really going back to what we first started talking about. You're not really figuring out what your potential is.
Speaker 1:But it's always more uncomfortable to walk towards those obstacles and lean in to the discomfort, just like you know lifting heavier weights. If you lean into that discomfort on the other side of that training session, you're going to be stronger. Same working out for your mind yeah. And so the more often you can walk towards difficult challenges, you're going to fail and realize failing is part of the process. It's literally bound to happen. If you're not failing, you're probably not leaning in hard enough, you're not challenging yourself enough, and then, when you succeed, feel fulfilled, you feel happy and that's.
Speaker 2:That's actually one of the things that's got me through this year, right, obviously we opened in austin and it's been, um, it's been awesome, uh, but it's also been, you know, one of the hardest things that I've done professionally in my career yeah opening up a location out of state, you know, obviously trying to do a good job, yeah, and um, I think I called you like maybe like five months ago, and you, um, do I feel like I'm I'm just dropping things left and right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I think you said you know, if you feel like you're messing up, you're probably in the right place, and I think that actually kind of released me in a certain way to just release some of the tension and the frustrations around. You know, our struggles of opening our first out of state location actually allowed me to give myself permission to just like rest a little bit and not not, uh, be so perfect or try to be so perfect, um, but yeah, that's a, that's a lesson I feel like. You know, people know, when they go to the gym, or I was like, yeah, it's going to hurt, but you're going to get stronger, I wish you know we gave came to mental struggles, you know, as physical struggles you can.
Speaker 1:You can train yourself.
Speaker 1:It's hard, but you can train and condition your mind to enjoy those difficult conversations because a lot of times in our business, in our industry, it's a lot of like conversations and there's a great book called, you know, crucial conversations, an iconic book on this topic. And you know, for me personally, I really struggled with difficult conversations, like as a young leader, trying to figure out how the hell I'm gonna lead people. I never felt confident and I never felt like I was good at it, but just, and I had to condition my mind to realize like the difficult conversations always lead somewhere. They don't always, you know, create amazing results, but they always move you forward, yeah, and the more you walk towards the difficult conversations, the better they got, and then the results got a little bit better, a little bit better, and then you can literally get to a point where you're like, oh, I want to have a difficult conversation because I know, even though it's hard now, long term, it'll be great.
Speaker 2:The brain is so plastic you could change your neurochemistry to become addicted to achieving hard things. Is what you're talking about, right? Is that the dopamine?
Speaker 2:you know, on the serotonin release of you know you get after a crucial conversation, there's like, ah, there's that, there's that learning, right, that that is always, always over. These, these crucial conversations, you can. You can actually wire your brain to seek those opportunities out, right. And I think that's the cool part about UGP is it's challenging what we do, dealing with humans and getting people on the same page. Those interactions are going to happen and if you want to be impactful, you have to step up to that line. You step up to that line. You're going to engage in these conversations, you're going to get better at them, and it just creates this loop. And that's like the crucial conversations are not. You know they're not necessarily stressful, right, but they're. You know they're uncomfortable, yeah, but I think that the more I'm here at UGP, the more and more I actually I agree with you that the fruit and the goal is really hidden behind those things.
Speaker 1:It's just like getting a workout in, like we talked about. You know it's going to suck, but you know you're dreading it. Yeah, but on the other side it's always positive. You can't lose, and if bad things happen, if mistakes are made or failure happens, that's a good thing. But you have to condition your brain to believe that failing is good because you learn, yeah, I think that's.
Speaker 2:That's really the thing. Right, there is a fear of failure and, um, I'm a full circle. I think that's the thing I had to get over. You know, when we started this thing, you know, in recovery and ugps, um, I had to finally let go of the fear of failure, just admit, hey, I need help. Yeah, right, and that was a big thing for me in my life and obviously it's a big thing for ugp as well yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, we're probably up on time here. We got to get back to the facility and the team, but thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it and I think this conversation was a great one, maybe not as technical as maybe people thought it would be.
Speaker 2:Maybe next time you're in Austin, we, we, we come back and do a second level.
Speaker 1:If you want a more technical conversation, let us know. But I think this is a great representation of like the actual conversations that we're having on a daily basis, like daily basis?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Not, you know we don't mess around while we get to the real meat and potatoes, those real core stuff that really matters, yeah, at least in our world. Yeah, and we care about and so that's why it keeps growing and, uh, it's not easy, but it's worth it. We, we love it. So thanks for listening in and hopefully we'll see you soon. Cheers, cheers, thanks, bill.